M. Cybelle
- M. Cybelle Interview From http://gloria-brame.com/
M. Cybelle is 42 years old. She is a professional dominant, sex educator, and transformation counselor to the transgender community. Her life partner is James W. This interview was taken from the Power chapter of Different Loving: The World of Sexual Dominance and Submission. For full information about obtaining this book, visit our Ordering page.
S/M has affected and expanded my life in a very positive manner. I'm a convert to D&S and S/M from being a bisexual, multi-orgasmic, fun-loving gal who thought S/M was sick. In the late 70's I had a successful career as a burlesque artist. It was a very different business then. The idea was to entertain--not to get people off, but to tease. Men brought their wives. It was quite erotic and fun. I was sexually sophisticated but misinformed about S/M: all I knew about it came from bad pornography. But then in 1979 a new roommate moved in with me. I found her extremely domineering and bossy, and when she told me she was getting into S/M, I thought, "No wonder she's so aggressive--she's into that sick stuff of abusing and humiliating people!" All I knew was from inaccurate pornography: the dominant woman is a man-hating bitch and the submissive man has no self-esteem, never stops crawling on the floor like a worm. I love men and didn't understand that submission is a giving up of power. My objections to S/M were not political; they were on a purely heart basis.
Then my roommate joined the Society of Janus. After only two meetings she said, "I'm sorry for being non-consensually dominant. I only want to do power games in the bedroom, and then with people who want to do them with me. S/M is not what you think it is." I was amazed by the change in her and became intrigued because if something was happening sexually that was good that I didn't know about, well...where do I sign up? I went to a Janus orientation and was astonished: people were committed to talking about the forbidden and about safety. They were working on communicating, on negotiating. I'm an EST graduate, and I've been in a lot of groups, but I had never seen this level of conversation. Most people don't even talk about straight sex!
The people at Janus were talking about what worked and what didn't and why, and how to negotiate what you want and don't want when you do S/M. I was fascinated by the level of honesty. Janus has a rule which is that if you don't have an interest in S/M, you're not allowed to join. This keeps out the people who are just curious, journalists, and therapists who want to study us like bugs under a microscope. I wanted to join so I was very frank. I said, "This is all new to me and my erotic interests are mainly costume, sexual theatre, and masturbation. I enjoy sex with people, and I'm very multi-orgasmic when I masturbate. I don't know if I qualify, but I'm seriously interested in joining." They decided that my interest in costume and sexual theatre could be considered a fetish, and they felt I would be a good addition. I appreciated that. I attended almost every program they had because I quickly realized that I didn't know anything. I was full of misinformation. I went to programs on piercing, bondage, sensory deprivation, gender, fetishes, whipping, you name it. I didn't know where I fit in, but it was erotic, informative, and fun. I didn't know if I was a top, bottom, switch, sideways, whatever! I don't fantasize when I have sex or when I masturbate. I never have. I'm very much in what I see and hear and smell and feel and taste. So, when a young man approached me at a Janus meeting and said, "I'd like to be at your service, anything you want," I wasn't able to tell him a thing. I didn't know how to get the dynamic started. But I kept going to meetings, I kept talking to people, and I kept listening and asking questions.
I couldn't seem to find my niche, yet I knew that there was a higher drama than what I was experiencing. One reason I was into masturbation is that no matter how much I loved somebody, after a while, the sex was predictable. My mind would wander. I thought, "Why can't I stay focused? Am I afraid of intimacy?" The truth is that I need high drama, or intensity. After the first flush of infatuation wears off, the drama's gone. In S/M this drama can be very intimate and very personal; it's not phony drama. It's also difficult to let the mind wander if you're truly involved in a D&S or S/M scene. More than just the genitals are involved. When the purpose of the interaction is not just orgasm but another kind of release as well, one moves to a deeper level of relationship that is more sophisticated and requires more thought and communication.
In 1983, I went to work for a phone sex company. Within 2 weeks, my dominant persona emerged. Boom! I think I had been afraid to take power. I remember that when I was nine--my parents were separated when I was four--my mother and I had a big argument. I won and she was reduced to a helpless, hysterical quivering pile of tears. I had this enormous rush of power like, "TA DA!! I'm in charge!" followed by hysteria, because, if at 9 years old I was in charge, we were in big trouble! Later in life it was hard for me to start scenes because I was scared about what was going to happen next. But on the phone, it's so distant; and most of the people I was dealing with didn't really want to submit. They wanted somebody to play out a fantasy. The fantasy aspect made it safe for me to act the role and ease my way into true dominance. Eventually pretending to be dominant became boring and a little frustrating. I began to ask the client if he would be willing to try genuinely being dominated over the phone. Some agreed and I started to explore the actual world of D&S. This has never been boring, professionally or personally. I've found it to be challenging, rewarding and a true path of self-awareness. Once I started playing with power in an erotic context I became aware of its uses and abuses in the rest of the world. I became a better communicator and negotiator--not only did I know about power games, I had played them out in a safe, fun, erotic way.
I went to work as a mistress-in-training for a professional mistress in late 1983. I was submissive to her and--under her instruction--dominant over the clients. I learned how to start a scene, what to do in the middle, and how to wrap it up. I found a framework upon which to hang my own interests. After about a month or two, I put an ad in the paper. In 1985 my roommate moved out so that we could turn her bedroom into a dungeon, and we began working together. I opened my own place and I did it mostly by slave labor. I got a phone call from a young man who was a painter and plasterer interested in D&S. We had a satisfying relationship on both sides, and he replastered and repainted my entire apartment.
I'm very involved in the S/M community in San Francisco now. I teach in it, I play in it, most of my friends are S/M people: not all, but most. I can be all of who I am in that world. When I go into a community that is not S/M-positive, sometimes I tell them that I'm a sex educator. I can be who I am, but not completely, because there's a part of me that may not be fully respected and accepted in that world. In my community I feel loved and accepted. When I got sick and was hospitalized with a herniated disc, all my money went towards paying bills. But the community raised money for me, did my shopping, cleaned my house; people came and bathed me at the hospital. Six months later people still called, asking, "What can I do?" I have an experience of being part of a tribe that appreciates its elders--I mean, I'm not that old, but I'm appreciated for what I know, what I give, and how I learn and teach.
Professionally I specialize in gender play, infantilism, and slave training with a pleasure/pain dynamic. Each situation has different emotional, physical, psychological, sexual, and spiritual intents. My erotic interests are extensive and varied both privately and professionally. This is important professionally because unless you're remarkably skilled it's difficult to make a living with only one interest, such as bondage or S/M. So I do a wide range of activities including fetishism, such as shoe/boot/foot worship, or various psychodrama scenarios.
I don't do anything illegal. I don't do degradation scenes. That's a limit I have. I have a hard time both privately and professionally doing something that I believe could encourage or reinforce low self-esteem. For me humiliation and degradation are two very different activities on a large continuum, starting with mild embarrassment and ending with extreme self-abasement and degradation. In the middle could fall teasing, mockery, humiliation, and the stripping away of false pride. I believe it's possible to do degradation scenes safely but that it's very tricky and requires follow-up aftercare by the top. I don't do anything unsafe in terms of S/M or health. There's no oral sex, anal sex, intercourse, or masturbation by me for legal reasons. The second reason I don't do anything directly sexual is that I like keeping something for my life partner. As a sex worker, I feel it's very important to have activities that are only for my personal relationships. I have an agreement with my life partner that neither one of us will engage in any directly sexual activities outside our relationship without first discussing them. He is not always submissive! In the everyday world he's dominant and he also has dominant erotic fantasies. We both are free to play D&S and S/M games with other people, always respecting each other's time and previous agreements.
I interview by phone clients who respond to my ads. I ask what prior experience they've had, who they have seen before, how long they have been playing and how often they play, and other questions. Then I ask if he has any questions and I give him some information. I tell him what I won't do, I let him know that I will take his fantasy and do it my way, respecting his limits. Professional dominance is a service occupation, but one does not have to be a submissive Mistress! The client is paying for time and skill, not for me to do exactly what he says. It's inherent that if a person wishes to be really submissive I not do everything he asks for the way he wants, so he has a true experience of not being in charge. If we seem to be compatible we make an appointment. When we meet we cover an extensive array of health questions. I don't want somebody to have an asthma attack in my playroom and not know where his inhaler is! This is also the time for last minute questions and information. After the scene has started is not the time for negotiation!
Most of my clients are not from the Leather Community although some have joined since I told them about the Society of Janus. I also run an S/M education and counseling ad; that clientele is more mixed. New dominant women enjoy having an S/M coach/womanfriend they can confide in who will guide them. Since 1983, I've only seen four women professionally. I believe that's because women do not think of procuring a sexual encounter. Two women wanted baby experiences. One woman wanted a heavy whipping in a controlled setting but without a close relationship; I was recommended to her. The fourth woman wanted to be a housemaid.
One group of clients I see are people who are interested in giving up power in a manner that is not competitive or rebellious. I do a lot of slave training and mental control. Usually such a person is someone who is in control a great deal in his life. He is looking for a place to relax and safely put all his power. Mental control alone is not always sufficient. Pain can be an aphrodisiac, but it also can be a very powerful reminder to someone that he is right here right now and not in charge. It's difficult to let your mind wander when your body is experiencing a very intense physical sensation. I use some bondage so that people have the experience of being unable to get away, or so that their bodies are altered in some manner. It's an experience that is separate from the rest of their lives. It's an experiential process not an analytical one.
Being told how to stand, sit, kneel, lie, where to look, how to address me, how to serve me food or drink, how to be there just for me, can be very freeing. To put someone else's desires ahead of one's own, to receive pleasure solely from pleasing someone else can be very good for the soul. I've heard slaves say that they feel most free inside when they're enslaved. When you affect the body--whether with ropes, diapers, clothes, sensation, or other control--you affect the mind.
The intense sensation of S/M is a tool to access both the energy of the body and the bottom's will. There's a phenomenon called sensory-transference in which the more you're aroused, the more stimuli that would otherwise seem painful begin to seem pleasurable. For example, when you scratch your fingernails down you partner's back at the beginning of the sex act, it's too intense. But at the height of passion it fits right in. This continues to happen along the pain-pleasure continuum: the more you're turned on, the more intense sensation feels pleasurable, until extreme sensations can become ecstasy. When squeezing a nipple, I can feel the energy in the person's body. Once he or she starts releasing energy, I can absorb it. Then I feed it back and the person gives it back to me. As this energy cycle builds it becomes deeply erotic.
There are many games and many different styles. What's a turn-on for me may be a turn-off for another dominant and vice-versa. One of the most exciting experiences for me both professionally and in my private life, is to be with someone who wants to please, serve and submit. Resistance games are fun but I don't find it erotic to have my power repeatedly challenged. My friend does; she works perfectly with this dynamic and so I refer those clients to her. I like to lead someone down an intense road of submission, service, and S/M. I'm strict and sadistic, yet gentle and compassionate. I want a person to get outside himself. Pain and bondage are means to this end. I love to look at complicated bondage but it seems to me that the person usually goes on an inner journey. This is a profound journey but I'm not this type of guide.
I'm a Neo-Pagan, goddess worshipper. I believe that in every human being there is a spiritual source. Some people call it a higher power; for me it's the higher power within and without. I like to be worshipped and adored, but I'm clear that it's not the ego-inflated human but a greater power within that's being adored. There's a woman named Starhawk who wrote a book called Dreaming the Dark. She's a feminist Pagan witch. She talks about power from within as opposed to power over.
It is the exchange of power and energy that's important to me, not whether I'm top or bottom. I'm top most of the time because that's the way my sexuality is wired, not because I think it's better. The intensity and intimacy of this exchange, whether it be the endorphin rush of an S/M scene or the emotional involvement of a D&S scene, have kept me participating. The personal growth, both intellectually and spiritually, is what has me so committed to this lifestyle.
I don't think S/M folk are better than others. We're different. Some people just don't have the desire to be as sexually intense as S/M people. There is a lot of unhealthy S/M. I think we have a great deal to work out, but I think we can model some behavior for other people. What I love about the Leather Community is that it's more willing than most to talk about difficult issues and to push its own limits. I think people should take the opportunity to question their beliefs; to ask where their information comes from and not to take everything that we've been taught at face value. S/M can encourage you to think for yourself. That's one of the reasons I'm passionately involved in it. I don't find this level of dialogue about power, control, intensity, negotiation, spirituality, psychology, and sexuality anywhere else.
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